Science only allowed

As reflected in the entry “Lying about the origins of Autism” on the Misadventures in Autism blog, I was frustrated with my inability to go through all the reports that Ginger Taylor had listed as proving that there was a link between vaccines and Autism. So frustrated in fact that I went to Facebook and noted the entry with the reports and asked for some help. Liz Ditz, bless her, was way ahead of me and uploaded a document with a complete list of rebuttals including links to David Gorski’s Respectful Insolence blog, Kev Leitch’s Left Brain Right Brain as well as Liz’s own blog.

I then wanted to post the material on Taylor’s blog, but it wouldn’t allow anonymous comments. Luckily for me, Justa Punk (not his real name) had an account called “Artie Christou” on Blogger and he willingly volunteered to do it for me.

I touched on this in the entry “Defamation against Johns Hopkins” on the Misadventures in Autism blog – yes I can now name Liz because I got a big thumbs up for what I did with Justa/Artie on the publication.

But this is when I saw a couple of morons come down on Artie like a ton of bricks – Gambolputty (or “Potty” as Artie delightfully called that user) and Provaxquacks. Justa/Artie does have a bit of a short fuse when it comes to these issues and he ended up being banned from Taylor’s blog, but it was clear. These idiots want the reports rebutted by science, which doesn’t include David, Matt Carey or Liz according to them. That angered me – and it obviously angered Justa as well.

Before I go onto the next point, I’ll just mention that Queensland psychotherapist who runs that blog on Canby – Wacka Dawson – put in his two cents. Amazingly, he got some sense out of Taylor and we had our first admission. They are linking to “Autism like symptoms”, which Wacka rightly pointed out was not equal to Autism. He suggested a review of the reports with this in mind, and Taylor seemed to agree – but I’ll believe it when I see it!

Provaxquacks alerted readers of Taylor’s blog that he or she would produce Artie’s rhetoric on the Provaxquacks Facebook page, and I sought the page out. As of this moment it hasn’t shown up and somehow I’m not really surprised. I’ve asked Justa not to post on there and he has agreed, and I went in and saw a comment by someone called Alexandar Kurbanov calling the page a “quack page”. And I started the ball rolling with this;

Outbreaks of preventable diseases in areas that used to have them under control, because people aren’t vaccinating as a result of poor information being doled out by the likes of you and your knowledge-less cohorts. Proof enough.

And here’s how the conversation has gone so far – or rather the argument!

But all of my children are vaccinated. Seems to me that if people aren’t vaccinating, then it’s because of the stupidity and arrogance of people like you.

Or it’s a problem with the system.

So, again, where is your proof that myself or anyone posting here is responsible for millions dead and crippled? Be specific.

Phil Gluyas….that name’s familiar. Aren’t you backing that Dubin guy?

I used to. Not any more after certain details were confirmed that weren’t previously available.

If your children are vaccinated, then you are being a massive hypocrite.

Where is YOUR proof that the deaths from preventable diseases are being caused by anyone else? If everyone vaccinated there wouldn’t be a problem. Think about it. (If you can that is!)

Oh I just found this example – or proof as you call it;
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/08/24/measles-outbreak-traces-to-vaccine-refusing-megachurch/

But I don’t go to that church.

Secondly, How am I being a hypocrite if I have vaccinated my children, but still find concern with the vaccination schedule?

Thirdly, I’m not making a claim that someone is responsible for millions dead and crippled, so the burden of proof falls on you to validate that claim.

Lastly, I seriously doubt millions of people read my page.

And that link you posted has no proof that I’m responsible for millions dead and crippled.

It’s proof that the sort of nonsense you are contributing to spreading is causing the issues I was speaking of. You don’t need to attend that church. You have the same attitude as they do, and they are being held responsible for a measles outbreak (hence I have provided proof that you say I have to provide). The connection is obvious.

If you have a concern with the vaccine schedule, you wouldn’t have vaccinated your kids. And yet you did. Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

I didn’t have problems with the vaccination schedule until I vaccinated my youngest. After watching the extreme reaction my baby had, I began to wonder if maybe it wasn’t as safe as advertised. No hypocrisy there.

As to the rest of your comment, again, no proof that I am responsible for millions dead and crippled. It would appear as if you are using something called a questionable cause, which you are using to make another logical fallacy called guilt by association. Really, though, you are just being hateful and bigoted to induce fear mongering.

“You have the same attitude as they do, and they are being held responsible for a measles outbreak (hence I have provided proof that you say I have to provide). The connection is obvious.”

But they aren’t responsible for millions dead and crippled, either. That’s pretty obvious, too.

You are the fear mongerer. Vaccines are safe. If your youngest had a bad reaction it was the administering doctor at fault, not the vaccine. Fear mongering is what stops people from vaccinating and fear mongerers such as yourself are therefore responsible for outbreaks of preventable diseases. If you can’t see that, then I question your ability to reason – or you live in a blinkered world with your eyes closed. Probably the latter.

And this is the reaction of a religious zealot who just got told that someone didn’t believe in his God. You accuse me of being responsible for killing and crippling millions of people, yet can provide no proof that I have done so. It’s fortunate for you that I don’t take any of your vapid rants seriously, or even take them as remotely sane. I do, however, enjoy the “I Know you are but what am I” thing going on here…very mature.

So, since you are being so defensive, hurling invectives and resorting to yet more logical fallacies, then that must mean that you find my opinion valid.

And since it just cannot be the vaccine, and you are making the claim that the vaccine could not have injured my child (without even seeing my child’s medical records, mind you…just your faith), then that means that no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. So, that must also mean that your rabid screed is irrational, therefore we can dismiss your fear and hate mongering for the inane bigotry that it is.

Look Phil (can I call you Phil?), if you don’t want someone calling you on your bullshit, then its best to go to your little echo chamber where all of your pals can high-five and pat you on the back for laughing at children getting injured by vaccines.

Oh dear, look at you now. Desperation plus. I’m an atheist for the record. If you aren’t taking what I am saying seriously, then I was right. You live in a blinkered world with your eyes closed. You’re the one on the defensive because I provided point blank evidence of your culpability and all you can do is do you version of the fingers in the ears and “lalalalalala I can’t hear you”. You’re the one filled with hate all because you THINK your child is vaccine injured. Where’s the proof? Where’s your case before the Vaccine Court (if you live in America that is)? Where’s your legal action against Big Pharma and/or the administering doctor if you aren’t? Do tell us what you’re doing to actually rectify this situation that you claim exists. Rabbiting on about it here won’t do you the slightest bit of good – in fact it’s hurting you. Unless you’re a masochist of course!

I’m the one calling you on your BS. Here’s a question. Is your child Autistic? If so the vaccine didn’t cause that. It’s genetic and runs in your family. You’ve probably got it yourself. At worst there may have been a sensory overload at the time of the vaccination, but then what caused that if so? Was it a bad vaccine from a batch not preserved properly? Were there any other reactions from that batch? There are a lot of questions that haven’t been answered here and it’s about time you answered them.

Meanwhile, accept that putting out lies about vaccine safety inherently harms children. I don’t need to prove it. I already gave you a link to someone else putting out the same lies and the link was made. If you can’t see the correlation then it’s obvious I’m dealing with a cast iron 100 percent fool.

Oh dear…you truly aren’t very bright, are you? I said your reaction is the same as a religious zealot’s. You may claim to be an atheist, but it is clear that you worship vaccines. That’s the very antithesis of what science actually is.

How do you know I haven’t filed a claim with the NVICP? You don’t. How do you know my child wasn’t injured by a vaccine? You don’t. Your ignorance also ignores the fact that more and more research is coming out that shows that not all cases of autism are genetic, that not all children are born with it. Yet, an unemployed high school drop-out has more expertise than the scientists who are doing research on the subject. You make these claims in the absence of any evidence. You accuse me of being responsible for killing millions of people, yet provide absolutely no proof. All of these extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence; evidence that you have yet to provide.

That is bullshit, plain and simple.

You are making claims that I’m responsible for killing and maiming millions. Yet, the link you provided is to a church that I have no affiliation with that has a few cases of measles and zero deaths. So, what you are doing is attributing a crime to this church (killing millions of people) that they actually haven’t done, and then calling me guilty because you think I’m associated with them, simply because I have vaccine concerns. That is pure irrationality and shows the depths of your hatred and bigotry.

Oh, and accusing a very rich mega-church of killing millions of people may not be the best thing to do; legally, that is. That’s pretty foolish, actually. I wonder what their lawyers would say? Maybe I should provide them with your accusations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Worship vaccines??? Are you nuts??? Why would anyone do that? I simply support them for what they do – protect the vulnerable in the community from preventable diseases. Nothing more.

Have you filed with the NVICP? Come on, out with it. Your refusal to answer perfectly reasonable questions augers badly for your cause. Autism is genetic and there has never been any proof otherwise. All children are born with it. I was born with it. All you have is wild speculation. I on the other hand provided proof and you are completely ignoring it due to your blinkered views on the issue. The church HAS done it – it’s there in the article I linked and I’m not the one actually doing the accusing. There is an investigation going on – you can’t deny that. And you’ll be next in the chute if you don’t be quiet on the issue or admit that you are wrong and that vaccines are safe. Your concerns are totally misplaced. If you want a target, try the workers – not the tools they use.

Your threats are as empty as your views on vaccines. You never do as you say. I’ve seen it. You don’t scare me. But I sure as heck scare you!

Add to this the fact that I got a reply from someone from the Health Department to my plea to Health Minister Tanya Plibersek to be more proactive in shutting down this vaccines cause Autism nonsense online, and all I got was words to the effect of “we’re putting out the positive message about vaccines and that’s all that’s needed”. That’s not good enough, DHS!

So here’s the frustration. We need science to shut this nonsense off, but science won’t touch it. I had a conversation with my mother over this and she agreed with my fury, but at the same time if they did do something it would validate the mere existence of these idiots and real science didn’t want to do that. That’s consistent with scientists in general thinking that it will just go away. It won’t – it is having a damning effect on vaccination numbers and fools like Provaxquacks refuse to even see what they are really doing!

So over the coming summer I am going to be seeking out real help. I’m not going to take “No” for an answer. We don’t need to validate the idiots. All we need to do is put the reports that Taylor is relying on as an example (along with anything extra that Meryl Dorey has thrown in as well as anyone else) into a proper perspective. Sort of update them, emphasis them and more importantly make it clear that the report does not prove what the idiots think that it does. Most importantly, make sure that they are published in the best science journals there are across the world. That way, science has done it’s job and the morons will look like the fools they are if they try to use them. And they didn’t get any specific attention in the process.

As it stands, you can’t use logic, common sense or practical fact with fools like Gambolputty and Provaxquacks. They want science, and science only. Well they’ll get it, and they won’t like it one bloody bit!!!

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