Science only allowed Part 2

I’ll just use this entry to record the latest from the Facebook thread noted in the previous entry, including Phil’s World’s own Tex Caldwell and another user named Joseph Bonnar. My comments are in blue, Provax’s are in red, Tex’s are in purple and Joseph’s in green.

Did you know that if one identical twin has autism, the other may not? That implies that it may not all be genetic. There is also evidence that there is an environmental factor. Yet, you in your ignorant and hate-filled rant, refuse to accept this evidence because it doesn’t fit into your narrow-minded world view. Once again, the very antithesis of science. Your reaction to anyone questioning vaccines is all the proof anyone needs to add veracity to the statement that you worship vaccines. It’s never the vaccines with you, you see? Even though real doctors, scientists, and the CDC acknowledge that vaccine reactions are real. Any rational individual can easily see that.

I have no way of knowing whether your anecdote regarding your diagnosis is true or not. Likely, it’s self-diagnosed.

I’m not going to answer your question regarding the NVICP because I don’t have to. It is irrelevant to this discussion, which is the accusation that I am responsible for killing millions of people. You also completely discredited yourself by claiming that your link to a Forbes article is proof that I or this church have killed millions of people. The article mentions no investigation or charges that are being filed. That is not proof, it is opinion. That, too is not science and shows a clearly irrational view in that you are attributing a crime to me that I have no involvement in simply because I have concerns with vaccines.

You have some pretty serious anger issues there, Phil. Your post seems a little threatening to me, and shows a clear case of thuggery going on here. “You’s be quiet, or else me talk to da boss.”

I’m also not in the least bit scared by fools and hypocrites like yourself. You have way too much anger and hatred as well, and you are so desperately trying to make yourself seem significant. You have my pity.

I have serious anger issues??? I’m LAUGHING at you in case you didn’t notice! You are scared and you’re in denial over it trying to seem big, strong and knowledgable. You know nothing and you jumping to conclusions (like that fallacy over identical twins – one twin is the opposite to the other so in fact it’s natural that if one is Autistic the other is neurotypical) is proof of your fear. The only environmental factor is regression down the Spectrum, not causation. I say it’s never the vaccines because there is no proof that it is. The only evidence is regression and even that is questionable.

I was formally diagnosed and have three available written confirmations (and a fourth somewhere), including from my current supporting psychiatrist. I never denied the existence of vaccine reactions. I am only denying causation of Autism. If you want to ignore the obvious implications of the Forbes article that’s your problem – Denial, or as someone else I know likes to say, a river in Egypt. I never said you were solely responsible. I said you were a part of the problem, along with other anti-vaxxers like this church and other fools like Meryl Dorey and her Australian Vaccination Network here in Australia, the Canary Party, Age of Autism and Generation Rescue just to name a few in America. They all do the same thing you do, throw around these falsehoods that vaccines cause Autism and scare people away from vaccinating.

If you feel threatened, that’s the fear you are denying just by the way. That’s why you won’t answer my questions. It proves that you aren’t acting in the best interests of your own children, and that’s why it’s relevant to the debate/argument – which last night I copied and pasted onto my website. I fight people like you – and I win. John Best is already headed down the proverbial gurgler and Oliver Canby is next. And over the coming southern summer – all anti vaxxers look out. Science is coming to get you!

No, identical twins share identical DNA. If one twin is autistic, then so should the other be. Remarkably, this is not always the case. New research has shown that there is most certainly an environmental factor in autism, and that it is not entirely genetic. But you don’t accept this information because it doesn’t conform to your world view. But, I should just accept the word of an unemployed high-school drop out over real scientists, right?

There is proof that children are getting injured by vaccines. The CDC accepts this, the pharmaceutical companies acknowledge this. In fact, that was the whole reason why the NVICP was created. But you don’t accept this; an unemployed high-school drop out knows more than the doctors and scientists who have done years of research. The fact that you cannot accept this means that you are not open to new evidence, which is the very core of irrationality.

As I said, you have serious anger issues, and I also question your sanity. You also have my pity; it must be so horrible having so much hatred and spite in you.

Now, yet another hate-filled, rabid diatribe coming from Phil in 3…2…1…

Oh dear you don’t understand how mirror images work obviously. New research? Probably from Clown University. The core is 100 percent genetic. Show me the research that says it’s not. I listen to the experts, not you. As I said, I NEVER said I deny vaccine injury. I said that I deny vaccine injury = Autism. And I’ll give you an example – Hannah Poling. The government admitted it was a vaccine injury. What does make me angry is that her father blamed the vaccines when in fact he should be suing the administering doctor for causing an overload by giving nine vaccines in the one visit to an established Autistic! I hate the Vaccine Court in that regard because it protects quacks who do the wrong thing. It should be shut down. You should really learn to read, and you should also recognise that it is YOU with the hate filled diatribe.

Sanity? Anti vaxxers are the insane ones – off in their own little world like you are. And you are angry that I have exposed you, and I’m loving every minute of it as you continue to make a fool of yourself. Keep it up! This is better that any reality show you care to name.

Now, yet another hate-filled, rabid diatribe coming from Provax Quacks in 3…2…1…

So, where is your evidence that mirror imaged zygotes have a protective factor in autism? Oh, I see…you made it up. So, you read some study somewhere and cherry-picked data to confirm your own bias. There was the UC Davis Mind Institute that showed that there was likely a strong environmental basis for autism. Oh, I forget…you know more about it than those doing the studies…an unemployed high school drop-out.

It’s also very fortunate that people can read through these comments and see where you said that you denied vaccine injury. You said that my child could not have been injured by vaccines with no evidence to back up your extraordinary claim. You’re even saying it now; that it wasn’t the vaccines that did it to Hannah Poling, without evidence, and trumping the expertise of the doctors and scientists who actually DID examine her. Do you not see how ridiculous your comments are? We certainly do. And we openly encourage you to continue your vapid, spittle-flecked rants so that everyone can see just how much of a fool you’re making of yourself.

And again, clear evidence that you are a hateful, bitter little man. It’s sad, really. And yet more of the “I know you are but what am I.” It’s really quite funny and shows just how tenuous of a grasp you have on reality and your own sanity. People can easily go through this exchange and see that I’ve been quite pleasant and amused at your childish antics. Compare that to your red-faced, teeth-clenched tirades, and everyone can easily tell who the hate-filled lunatic is. They can see that you’ve been accusing me of being responsible for killing millions of people, and yet cannot provide valid evidence to validate that claim.

And yes, do keep it up! I’ve been egging you on the entire time, watching you sputter and stamp your foot like a spoiled child. Your meltdowns are truly a wonder to behold and show exactly how far off the deep end you are. I also love the juvenile attempts at mocking me because you are incapable of coming up with an original response.

Are you going to begin more foot-stamping child? It’s very amusing.

“If you feel threatened, that’s the fear you are denying just by the way. That’s why you won’t answer my questions. It proves that you aren’t acting in the best interests of your own children, and that’s why it’s relevant to the debate/argument – whichlast night I copied and pasted onto my website. I fight people like you – and I win. John Best is already headed down the proverbial gurgler and Oliver Canby is next. And over the coming southern summer – all anti vaxxers look out. Science is coming to get you!”

I see, you just edited that in.

I don’t feel threatened by you, Phil, because I’m not threatened by bullies and fools. I won’t answer you because it isn’t any of your business, and I prefer my anonymity, which is in the best interest of my children. It’s not relevant to the debate/argument because the debate/argument has to do with your claims that I am responsible for killing millions of people. And oh!!! Watch out! Science is coming to get me. Oh, how very terrifying. What a frikkin’ joke!! Once again, more evidence that your views are like that of a religious zealot.

“If you want to ignore the obvious implications of the Forbes article that’s your problem”

There’s no obvious implications there. It’s an opinion piece. There’s nothing in there proving that me or the church are responsible for killing millions of people. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Op-eds are not extraordinary proof. There’s also no evidence of an investigation or charges being filed; that’s yet more of your own confirmation bias.

You fight people like me? For what, disagreeing with you? You don’t like what I say, so you’re going to censor me? I don’t know a single court in the world who would take your case.

This is the very definition of a bully, Phil; I do what you say, or you’ll sue me. That’s exactly what’s going on here. Oh, and just so you know, I too have been copying our exchange. I’m only going to warn you once; no more of this type of bullying. I’ve been relatively pleasant so far, so I encourage you to discontinue.

You remind me of someone I just recently had a discussion with on another site. Someone named Artie. You know him? There was also someone else named Wacka who had a blogsite about Oliver Canby. He claimed to be a psychotherapist, but was very unethical in that he was openly diagnosing Mr. Canby on a public site. You know him, too?

Where did he say he’d sue you, sidewinder? He said he’d fight and there are other ways to damn well do it! He’s said so on his website after quoting this conversation what he’s going to do and it’s nothing to do with legals!

You’re insane. All anti vaccine crap artists are insane. The science is out there and even high school drop outs like Phil can understand it! So where does that leave you? If Phil can understand it with a high school education, what’s your damn excuse?

You want proof? Google Australian Vaccination Network and look what’s happening to them right now. That’s not opinion. That’s a pack of damn fools being dealt with for the same things you say no one is by the government and by the courts!

It’s up to you to say what you want to say. That’s the First Amendment. But like Gertz v Welch, if something is said that has no place in the proper discourse of public opinion you can expect to be punished – either by law or by the people in whatever way they see fit! It’s one thing to have an opinion. It’s soemthing else to preach it as fact like you’ve been doing! Jesus, get a life!

I wasn’t the one who brought autism into this. He was.

Secondly, I’m familiar with his lawsuit against John Best, so his intent to silence opposing opinions through legal thuggery was quite clear.

Thirdly, he was called out on his bullshit, and it was pointed out why it was bullshit. He doesn’t understand the science because he is using it to confirm his own bias. He is saying that his expertise as an unemployed high school dropout makes him better qualified to make definitive statements that say my child or Hannah Poling was not injured by vaccines. He spewed more bullshit when he made accusations that I was responsible for millions of deaths. He makes these unverified, unvalidated accusations with zero evidence. When I called him on that bullshit, he starts stomping his feet like a spoiled child. Then he runs to the Provax independence alliance page and cries about needing help. He’s a bully and a coward, and I called him on it.

Lastly, your final statement also applies to Phil. I’m allowing him to spew his venom and nonsense so rational people can come here and see just how insane he is. Many of them will likely see his angry, foaming-at-the-mouth tantrums and wonder if all of the Vaccine Zealots are like him and start looking into the research for themselves. Hey, maybe Phil is actually advocating for safer vaccines by making the rest of the Vaccine Zealots look like idiots!

Speaking of getting a life, you’re the one coming here and trying to be all big and mighty because someone came whining to you, not me. You know where the door is.

Legal thuggery? That was Gopher Breath (my name for JB) doing that and HE got called on it! Phil WON!

And when did Phil say that HE was a scientist? Unlike you he reads and he learns from what he reads. You don’t. You just see one thing and run with it. That does not make you rational. It makes you damn stupid. You don’t understand the connections he is making as further proof. So no matter what education you have, your IQ is down on Phil’s and every other rational and sane person who knows that vaccine injury is nowhere near as prevalent as you think it is.

Phil never whined to me or anyone else. He knows there is strength in numbers and he knows that there are many more people on his side of this issue than yours. Way more. You are wrong and science has proven it. Not Phil. Science. And before you try and play the education card at me, I graduated university. And I went back for more and got more qualifications. In two different countries (the USA and Australia). Law and finance.

Oh? Is that why he’s setting up lawsuits against just about everyone he thinks has insulted him? He’s a thug and a bully, plain and simple.

I didn’t say he was a scientist; I said he was a high-school dropout. So, that’s your strawman. He’s making connections because they confirm his bias. That is not science, and it is not understanding the science. So, no matter what education you have, and what your IQ is (which is irrelevant here), it is still not science. It’s bias. It does, however, show just how hateful, angry, and insane he is. He’s a true believer, and no amount of evidence, ever, will change his mind. He (and you, obviously) doesn’t want anyone to question the science of vaccines. Questioning is the very core of what science is. Again, his belief is not science; it’s faith.

And how do you know that vaccine injury is no where near as prevalent as I think it is? They’ve never studied children with vaccine injury.

He never whined to you or anyone? Is that so? So why do I see his comment on the Provax Independence Alliance page begging for help? That looks like whining to me. It also shows that he’s a bully and a coward. As to your credentials; good for you. Of course, we have absolutely no way of proving your education, do we? Which shows that your education level is irrelevant

Find me one study that even looks at children who have received a vaccine injury and we’ll talk. Until then, there’s the door.

Alexandar, not only is this page laughably wrong, but also people foolish enough to follow the advice they quote are simply removing themselves from the gene pool. I only hope they don’t injure others during the process.

And such a lovely comment to prove what this page is about, Joseph. Thanks for that!

You have the right to your own beliefs. That is the same right that I have to, say, swing my fist. But it is proven in law that anybody’s right to swing his or her fist ends when it connects with another’s face.
If any of my family catch a preventable disease because another person wasn’t vaccinated (I have infants and cancer survivors in my family who can’t be vaccinated for those reasons) I will find a lawyer and I will sue.

Good luck with that. You must first establish who and where the disease came from and prove that the disease came from one particular person. You’d have a really difficult time suing me for something so frivolous, however, since I and my children are vaccinated.

That is an admission that what I say can happen, Provax.
And yes, it can be proven. The virus that causes a disease can be identified and it can be tracked back to the original infection. All I need to do is track back to the person who infected myfamily.
Expensive?
Yep.
Worth it?
Yep.

I believe in the scientific method, and I have trust in the law, and I have enough money to sue and to continue to press the suit as far as is possible.

And believe me, I will. And while I may not win one case, eventually this sort of suit will become more and more common. And people like me WILl start winning the damages that are due to them FROM your idiocy.

What idiocy? All of my family is vaccinated. And what, exactly, will you do when a member of your family gets sick from someone who is also vaccinated? Will you sue them too?

No, because in that case the person who was vaccinated took reasonable precautions.

If I am struck by another car where the driver was drunk, I sue.
If I get struck by another car where the driver was behaving with due caution and was following the laws of traffic, I won’t sue. I have no legal standing to sue in that case. (This is why no fault insurance is a good thing.)

And as for your family, their being vaccinated relieves me.
It shows that somebody there cares about their children and the community, and for that care I thank them.

But what about the children who have been injured by vaccines? I guess they don’t count? Also, I find it quite offensive the implication that people who have concerns about vaccines do not care about their children or the community.

And another question. Will you sue if you or a family member has to have a kidney replaced, and someone else has a kidney that is a match, but doesn’t want to give it up? Just like vaccination, it’s a medical procedure.

Ahh. Where are they? Where are they?
Check the real numbers.

The odds of having a significant vaccine injury (which is different than a vaccine event) are far smaller than the risks you take by not being vaccinated.

This is something you may not understand, so I’ll try to clarify.
A vaccine injury is an event that occurs because of the vaccine, where it can be traced back and proven to be a result of the vaccine. These are tracked and every effort is taken to keep the numbers small and the injuries light, and this effort is very effective.
A vaccine event is anything that happens after a vaccination, whether it is related to the vaccine or not.

For example: After vaccination let us assume that 1 child in 10,000 gets a fever. The fever would be listed as a vaccine event. But if it can be proven that 1 child in 10,000 would get a fevor during the same period of time WITHOUT being vaccinated then it is unreasonable to claim that said fever is a result of the vaccination. It is an event that happened to coincide with the vaccination.

And that, by the way, is where the autism/mmr link became popular. Because autism expresses itself at about the same age that vaccinations are given people assumed that the vaccines caused the autism.
We now know that autism happens in utero. (In fact the latest research associates it with induced labor, and is fascinating. I urge you to check it out.) We also know that the incidence of autism is the same between people not given the MMR vaccine and those who were given it.
Given those two hard scientific facts we may reasonably state that autism is not caused by vaccines.

You comment about children being injured by vaccines. Let us look instead at the effect on infant mortality and life span that vaccines cause.
It is simply true that when a new vaccine protects against some childhood disease that infant mortality goesdown. The proof is easily found, but let me give you a link.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

Yes, this is a government web site. I’m sorry if you don’t trust them, but I do, and I have good reason.

Ok, here’s another hard scientific fact; the reporting system to check the rates of vaccine injury is under-reported. It is estimated that only around 10% of vaccine injuries are actually reported as adverse events by admitting physicians. This is alsoskewed by vaccine zealots creating false reports to throw off the event reporting system.

The latest research doesn’t say exactly what you say it does. It links autism cases and induced labor (Pitocin, I believe), which means it may not be entirely genetic. It also doesn’t explain the rapid increase of cases of autism. It also doesn’t explain how more and more children are developing encephalopathies from vaccine reactions, and their symptoms just happen to look a lot like autism. Hannah Poling comes to mind.

As to the MMR, I know of very few people who say that MMR is the sole cause of autism.

And? The US, which is the most vaccinated country in the world, is also no where near the top of the list of countries with the lowest infant mortality. We have 3rd world countries that are better than us. Is it because of the vaccines? I don’t know, but the fact that many of these countries have far fewer required vaccines than the US does certainly raises my eyebrows.

But how then do you explain this fact:
Before vaccines, infant mortality was high and life expectancy low.
Then vaccinations came along. Infant mortality dropped, and life expectancy rose.

You will, I suppose, cite access to clean water, safe food, medicine, and so on as being the true causes. That is wrong. We note that in developing countries getting clean water, safe food, and medical care still see the major improvement only following vaccinations. *shrugs*

Yes, but how is it that access to clean water, safe food, and better medical care increases life expectancy and lowers infant mortality so much more significantly than vaccination does?

I think you’re missing a very important point. There is a risk versus benefits evaluation that must be made in every medical decision, vaccinations included.

Does having heart surgery carry greater risks than not having it? I can die if I don’t get the surgery done, but I can also die during or because of the surgery. What is the risk, what is the benefit?

In this argument you are on the loosing end of the stick.

Vaccines have been found to be the single safest way to fight infectious diseases. They even carry the potential for eliminating illness. (You won’t get, nor would I ask you to get, a smallpox vaccination. That’s because Smallpox have been vaccinated out of the wild, it no longer exists. I hope. Could be some in a bioweapons lab somewhere.)

The risks exist. And because they exist I demand that vaccines be monitored, their effects studied, and the proof gathered now and in the future.

But the benefits exist. And nothing you claim can shake the simple mountain of evidence you’re trying to shape into a molehill.

Vaccines save lives.
They do so at minimal cost, with minimal risks, and they qualify as one of the great advancements of the medical era.

Now for a personal note. Possibly you wonder why I am so passionate here and why I am arguing my case so strongly. It might help you understand me better to know my era and what I have seen.

I’m going to focus on one disease: Polio.
I was born prior to the development of the polio vaccine, and I am a polio survivor. Unlike many who got it, I am a fortunate person. I suffered a mild case, and have no long term effects from it at all. I was so lucky.

I saw children my age in iron lungs.
I saw children my age with withered limbs.
I saw funerals for children my age.

Polio.

Then the vaccine came.
Polio was eradicated within a few years.

The iron lungs are gone.
You don’t see children with crutches from polio, or a withered arm, or dead.

That is what I’ve seen happen because of vaccinations.
I think that explains my position, and I doubt you will be easily able to sway me. I’ll take hard proof, sound proof, and modify my stance based on that evidence, but it must be real, it must be sound, it must be based on the scientific method, and it must pass every test.

Just as the vaccines have done.

You see, this is where the “logic” of the vaccine zealots implodes. It’s either all or nothing for them. You either get all vaccines when the schedule says you do, or you’re anti-vaccine. There’s no middle ground there. I would rather get the vaccine instead of polio, absolutely. I’m also old enough to have had the Smallpox vaccination. I’d rather get vaccinated for smallpox than have smallpox.

But here’s the question; do they test vaccines on completely healthy individuals, or do they test them on children who may be sick?

I don’t want to get rid of vaccines, despite the “anti-vaccine” epithet that vaccine zealots erroneously label me with. But that’s me; I’m not the only one who runs this site). But the risk/benefit ratio may be skewed. If adverse events aren’t being reported as they should be, then the data regarding the risk/benefit is wrong. And if children, like my child, are having extreme reactions to vaccines, then they need to be studied instead of the parents being labeled as fringers and then attacked relentlessly for getting their child vaccinated. It’s disgusting!

*nod* You’re saying that it’s all or nothing. I understand, that’s a common perception of society and our democracy. Everything has multiple sides.

But who said science or truth is a democracy?

If something is provably true, and the proofs are sound, there isn’t really room for “a
second opinion”. Lets look at gravity, shall we?

If you claim that gravity doesn’t exist and then step off a roof, sorry, I’ll send flowers to your grave. We have lots and lots of proof that gravity exists, and nothing to show that it doesn’t.

Gravity is NOT a democracy.

The same can be said for vaccines.

We have proof, hard proof compiled over many years of sound research, that vaccines work as I say they do.
We have scant reliable proof that shows they don’t.

We have some fraudulent studies, proven frauds. Wakefield comes to mind. We have him and his apologists.

We have a lot of people making a lot of claims.
Good. Any reasonable claim can be made here.

Can it be proven with the same certainty that vaccines have been proven? And, if so, where is the proof?

(This is where you can come up with links for me to read. Please, don’t link anything from Naturalnews, Mercola, or Whale, PLEASE! I’m an old man, I don’t think my heart would take it if I broke out laughing that hard.)

And now I need to take a break. I’m enjoying our discussion, and I’ll be very interested to see how you counter my arguments. But if I don’t eat and don’t get my coffee, well, I’ll not only be an old man, I’ll be a crabby foul mouthed crazy old bastard. I’ll be back. 🙂

My apologies for the delayed response. I was on my way home from work.

Let me ask you a question; have there been studies done on children who regressed post-vaccination? Have there been any studies that looked at children that developed an encephalopathy after receiving a large number of vaccinations?

The problem with the “hard proof,” as you put it, is that it comes from organizations and businesses that have a vested interest in the outcome of the results. They actively promote and police their own products that they are pushing on the public. And let’s not forget that these businesses are guilty of lying and manipulating data to give themselves a favorable outcome on their studies (I happen to have a friend who died as a result of Vioxx). This hard proof is taken from databases that are admittedly under-reported.

Utilitarianism is fine; the needs of the many versus the needs of the few and all that. But that ends when the risk-benefit ratio is not as cut in stone as many believe. We could debate the morality of it all night. For example; you mentioned earlier that you have cancer survivors in your family that cannot be vaccinated. Are you going to sue them for spreading diseases if they catch a VPD? The needs of the many versus the needs of the few and all that…

Now, my rambling comment actually has a point; we only partially know how the mechanism for vaccine injury is occurring. If we don’t study these children further, then I honestly think that there will be more and more cases of vaccine injury that just happens to look an awful lot like autism. If we are forcing these vaccines on children who may have a predisposition for vaccine injury (Hannah Poling, for example), then we are doing the same thing to them as we would be doing to a cancer patient.

I, too, find this conversation quite fascinating, and you’ve been relatively polite during this exchange; something that I am actually pleasantly surprised about and appreciative of. However, you will have to forgive me as I have to take time to spend with my family and prepare dinner, homework, baths, etc.

I do know about real life. If I didn’t have one I couldn’t pay for my internet, and my life would be dull and boring without 973 grumpy cat memes per day. 🙂 Take care, and if you want to continue let me know. I’ll dig into your last comment when we both have more time.

Well well well you decided to unblock me huh? Didn’t like being called out on it huh?

First off, there have been no studies on the circumstances you describe because the events are too rare, or they didn’t happen for the reasons you think. Science knows what really happened so such a study would be a waste of time. You can’t accept that because of YOU bias!

Now to the reply that you last sent to me and only now I have the chance to respond;

“So, where is your evidence that mirror imaged zygotes have a protective factor in autism? Oh, I see…you made it up. So, you read some study somewhere and cherry-picked data to confirm your own bias. There was the UC Davis Mind Institute that showed that there was likely a strong environmental basis for autism. Oh, I forget…you know more about it than those doing the studies…an unemployed high school drop-out.”

Protective factor?? You fool! You completely misrepresented what I said just to run around the point so I won’t repeat it again as you are incapable of understanding it properly.

“It’s also very fortunate that people can read through these comments and see where you said that you denied vaccine injury. You said that my child could not have been injured by vaccines with no evidence to back up your extraordinary claim. You’re even saying it now; that it wasn’t the vaccines that did it to Hannah Poling, without evidence, and trumping the expertise of the doctors and scientists who actually DID examine her. Do you not see how ridiculous your comments are? We certainly do. And we openly encourage you to continue your vapid, spittle-flecked rants so that everyone can see just how much of a fool you’re making of yourself.”

So the doctor is totally innocent of any wrong doing? Nine vaccines in the one visit? That’s okay, right? Nope, it’s not okay and it the real core reason why the government conceded the case to the Polings! Your attempt to blame the vaccines right alongside that idiot father of Hannah’s must be music to the ears of the quack who stuffed up. A poor worker blames their tools.

“And again, clear evidence that you are a hateful, bitter little man. It’s sad, really. And yet more of the “I know you are but what am I.” It’s really quite funny and shows just how tenuous of a grasp you have on reality and your own sanity. People can easily go through this exchange and see that I’ve been quite pleasant and amused at your childish antics. Compare that to your red-faced, teeth-clenched tirades, and everyone can easily tell who the hate-filled lunatic is. They can see that you’ve been accusing me of being responsible for killing millions of people, and yet cannot provide valid evidence to validate that claim.”

Sane people who read this, like Tex and Joseph (and Justa/Artie) and the majority of the population will see who the fool is, and it’s not me. It’s you. You play a role indirectly in the increased prevalence of preventable diseases by encouraging parents to not vaccinate their children. That’s as plain as the nose on your face, and your ignorance of that is a far more pertinent demonstration of hate-filled lunacy that I could ever provide!

“I don’t feel threatened by you, Phil, because I’m not threatened by bullies and fools. I won’t answer you because it isn’t any of your business, and I prefer my anonymity, which is in the best interest of my children. It’s not relevant to the debate/argument because the debate/argument has to do with your claims that I am responsible for killing millions of people. And oh!!! Watch out! Science is coming to get me. Oh, how very terrifying. What a frikkin’ joke!! Once again, more evidence that your views are like that of a religious zealot.”

Then why did you block me from this page until now? Way to lie, and be caught at it! I’ve already addressed the rest of that diatribe.

“There’s no obvious implications there. It’s an opinion piece. There’s nothing in there proving that me or the church are responsible for killing millions of people. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Op-eds are not extraordinary proof. There’s also no evidence of an investigation or charges being filed; that’s yet more of your own confirmation bias.”

You just refuse to get the message being sent, also as previously addressed.

“You fight people like me? For what, disagreeing with you? You don’t like what I say, so you’re going to censor me? I don’t know a single court in the world who would take your case.”

I fight people like you because you threaten children’s lives. That’s way more serious that the insignificant side line you’re crapping on about.

“This is the very definition of a bully, Phil; I do what you say, or you’ll sue me. That’s exactly what’s going on here. Oh, and just so you know, I too have been copying our exchange. I’m only going to warn you once; no more of this type of bullying. I’ve been relatively pleasant so far, so I encourage you to discontinue.”

You are the bully and I have proven it as well. You have no right to try and deny children access to proven protection from preventable diseases. UNICEF would have you for breakfast for that – and lunch and dinner! As for suing you? I need an actual cause of action, as Joseph has demonstrated in general. At present I don’t have one and I doubt I will have one. There are other ways to fight fools like you and that is what I am going to be doing. What am I doing? That’s for me to know and for you to find out!

“You remind me of someone I just recently had a discussion with on another site. Someone named Artie. You know him? There was also someone else named Wacka who had a blogsite about Oliver Canby. He claimed to be a psychotherapist, but was very unethical in that he was openly diagnosing Mr. Canby on a public site. You know him, too?”

I know Justa/Artie. He has an autistic son and actually lives in a suburb of Melbourne, Australia. Wacka I know from the very same blog you are describing and Canby asked for that public diagnosis. If you saw Canby’s wild behaviour (which by the way has led me to sue him and that’s in progress) you’d see that he had a point. Wacka does do his own thing and I did see him give Taylor the benefit of the doubt over those reports of hers and how she would edit the list. I’ll believe that when I see it!

One more thing. In reponse to Tex informing you that I beat John Best in court, you claimed that I’m suing everyone who insults me. Bull. I only sue people who defame me – as Best did. In particular he called me the next Adam Lanza as well as accused me of “brutalising” someone, imputing that I bashed someone up good and proper – along with some other related defamatory rubbish that went way beyond just insults. I had a case and I won. That’s not thuggery. That’s rightful self defence.

You are the true believer, and you believe things that are against reality. You want to see studies on vaccine injuries. They have been done and not released because they show nothing new. They only show that the injury that occurred was not by the vaccine by itself. There were other factors that the vaccine had nothing to do with. Your refusal to accept this is why you are the one who is biased. There is no proof that vaccine injuries occur enough times to be a concern, except for those who have a vaccine injured child. And they are in the vast minority. A medical accident which unfortunately happens from time to time. But as Joseph has said, the risk is worth the reward and that’s the abolition of preventable diseases.

And you oppose such an eradication.

“Well well well you decided to unblock me huh? Didn’t like being called out on it huh?”

You haven’t been blocked, though your attitude is about to get you banned.

“Protective factor?? You fool! You completely misrepresented what I said just to run around the point so I won’t repeat it again as you are incapable of understanding it properly.”

So, no evidence, just cherry-picking data and misinterpreting science. Exactly what you accuse me of. Hypocrite.

“So the doctor is totally innocent of any wrong doing? Nine vaccines in the one visit? That’s okay, right? Nope, it’s not okay and it the real core reason why the government conceded the case to the Polings! Your attempt to blame the vaccines right alongside that idiot father of Hannah’s must be music to the ears of the quack who stuffed up. A poor worker blames their tools.”

So, you just admitted that it’s dangerous to give 9 vaccines at once and that vaccines maybe aren’t as safe as you say. Good for you!!! There may be hope for you yet…though I seriously doubt it because you are a true believer, and no amount of evidence will ever change your mind.

“Sane people who read this, like Tex and Joseph (and Justa/Artie) and the majority of the population will see who the fool is, and it’s not me. It’s you. You play a role indirectly in the increased prevalence of preventable diseases by encouraging parents to not vaccinate their children. That’s as plain as the nose on your face, and your ignorance of that is a far more pertinent demonstration of hate-filled lunacy that I could ever provide!”

Which is why you’re spewing your hate-filled lunacy so everyone can see? Bravo! Again, more hypocrisy. And again, no proof that I’m responsible for millions dead. So, unsubstantiated opinion.

“Then why did you block me from this page until now? Way to lie, and be caught at it! I’ve already addressed the rest of that diatribe.”

Because you haven’t been blocked…duh!

“You just refuse to get the message being sent, also as previously addressed.”

Hello pot, meet kettle.

“You are the bully and I have proven it as well. You have no right to try and deny children access to proven protection from preventable diseases. UNICEF would have you for breakfast for that – and lunch and dinner! As for suing you? I need an actual cause of action, as Joseph has demonstrated in general. At present I don’t have one and I doubt I will have one. There are other ways to fight fools like you and that is what I am going to be doing. What am I doing? That’s for me to know and for you to find out!”

Right…which is why you’re over here acting like a thug and trying to hurl around threats (UNICEF will eat you! I fight guys like you and win!). And, oh my frikkin’ God!!! Can you be any more childish? Yet again, more evidence of your insanity and your vapid hatred.

“I know Justa/Artie. He has an autistic son and actually lives in a suburb of Melbourne, Australia. Wacka I know from the very same blog you are describing and Canby asked for that public diagnosis. If you saw Canby’s wild behaviour (which by the way has led me to sue him and that’s in progress) you’d see that he had a point. Wacka does do his own thing and I did see him give Taylor the benefit of the doubt over those reports of hers and how she would edit the list. I’ll believe that when I see it!”

Uh huh….riiiight. Sure thing, Phil *wink*

“You are the true believer, and you believe things that are against reality. You want to see studies on vaccine injuries. They have been done and not released because they show nothing new. They only show that the injury that occurred was not by the vaccine by itself. There were other factors that the vaccine had nothing to do with. Your refusal to accept this is why you are the one who is biased. There is no proof that vaccine injuries occur enough times to be a concern, except for those who have a vaccine injured child. And they are in the vast minority. A medical accident which unfortunately happens from time to time. But as Joseph has said, the risk is worth the reward and that’s the abolition of preventable diseases.”

Really? They have been done but not released? Talk about believing things against reality! That is utter and complete bullshit, Phil. And again, more evidence that you are a true believer.

Phil, you’ve worn out your welcome here. I think it’s time for you to go home. You have one more chance to speak politely. After that, you’re banned.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=156771457855294&set=a.126091264256647.1073741828.125879120944528&type=1

You already banned me once. I know. I saw it. Tex Caldwell provided the link to your page and last night I couldn’t see it. Why? Because I was blocked. Now this morning I could see it. So you are a liar.

I’ve worn out my welcome? You have worn out your welcome on Facebook with your lies about vaccine safety. You were called out on Taylor’s blog about your lack of logic and common sense, and that call out was right. Even high school drop outs like me are capable of logic and common sense, so what’s your excuse? You have no respect for such simple and accurate facts of life – as the above meme demonstrates.

Over the coming southern summer, your beliefs are going to cop a hiding – from science. The reports that you say don’t exist will be brought out. That’s what I will be fighting for. This is one of those occasions that commercial confidentialty will be smashed as it’s not helping science win the fight for vaccines as they should be. At present the attitude of science is that people like you are cult followers who will fade from sight eventually without having any real effect. I agree that you are a cult follower, but the damage being done to vaccine integrity is a very real effect that can’t be just brushed aside anymore.

One more thing – you admit now that the doctor did the wrong thing with Hannah? Good! Forget about the vaccines and go after the quack instead. The vaccines were not the poblem. The doctor was, and under the present system in the US he is protected from prosecution. That’s pathetic and it wouldn’t happen in Australia. Remember also that Hannah had a condition that the vaccine catch up reacted against, something that should have been noticed and wasn’t. The mitocondrial dysfunction. She was already on the Spectrum and the whole combination led to the regression. Ponder on that list of facts and you’ll see why her father is wrong to blame vaccines for causing Autism in his daughter. He should blame the doctor for not DXing the mitocondrial issue, and blame himself for not seeing he had an Autistic daughter already. Anyone already on the Spectrum should NEVER get nine vaccines in the one visit. NT’s (aw bugger I flicked the enter button!) are able to handle it provided they are not ill.

If you ban me now, you are only enforcing your bullying tack to protect your own little fairy land – a land that will soon be exploded to all parts of the world.

And of course he blocked me again. In fact he removed the page from view as everyone I knew couldn’t get to it! Except for Joseph who I have asked to provide me with a copy of Provax’s last comment, which I got notice of just before I was blocked. He hasn’t got back to me at the time of upload of this entry but when he does I’ll put it in the comments.

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